Curse

Tactical-Dillusions · May 12, 2012, 09:31 AM // 09:31

The January change to the health of hard mode enemies made Kilroy's Punchout Extravaganza ridiculously hard. Was this not even tested before going live and has anyone else noticed?

Equip your knuckles and go try it. Since January I've not been able to do it in HM. I suggest you increase players damage dealt in that mission or increase players health pool.

superraptors · May 12, 2012, 09:49 AM // 09:49

wouldn't mind tbh the rewards and repetitiveness makes it not worth doing.

Queen Of Recovery · May 12, 2012, 10:29 AM // 10:29

cause everybody is complaining about this dungeon recently i went and tried it again.

i rly dont see a problem here, i got ko'ed twice, ok its two times more then what it used to be, but in no way is it impossible or ridiculously hard.
and yes i fought every enemy, didnt do it the cheesy way (if thats still possible).

here are some tips:
- always attack the one kilroy is attacking.
-at the wolves, dont wait for kilroy and run towards the right group (that way you dont have to fight the left group)
- at the circle fight until it gets hard (or if kilroy dies) if it gets to hard let kilroy die and start pulling them 2 at a time towards the gate (you can easily solo 2 at a time)
- at the end forget the ettin, ko fronis and get the chest.
- if you get ko'ed a lot press the stand up skill with mouse and keyboard

i hope this all helps, but rly i dont think this dungeon needs a nerf or players deserve a buff.

Fraktyl · May 12, 2012, 01:55 PM // 13:55

You can still cheese it.

Tom Swift · May 12, 2012, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Yup cheesing it is still as easy as ever. If you do decide to do it the easy way, though, don't use a speed boost such as candy or cupcake, just run through on kilroy's shout. I found using a speed boost just made it much more likely that lag would stick me in the middle of baddies while I thought I was three rooms away.

Some ways to increase damage etc, however:

1: I believe all the damage is physical so insignia like stalwarts which increase armor vs physical can help a lot.

2: set your secondary to sin and put dagger mastery at max.

3: use thunderfist's knuckles with a furious mod (to increase adrenaline) brawn over brains (the energy penalty isn't going to make a difference here since energy is set) and a shelter mod. you might also customize them for additional damage if you are not planning to need them on another toon.

I did the dungeon and got knocked down a few times - mostly due to the fact that I'm pretty rusty. But it was very doable, at least as a W/A

roses are blue · May 12, 2012, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Kilroy's has always been easier on a high armor profession like warrior. Try it in HM on a caster profession, it will be harder. While the rewards for doing the dungeon are small, other than exp points for the survivor farmers, realize that if you're going for a complete dungeon book and/or master of the eye of the north, you will have to do this dungeon. It needs to be do-able by most people using all professions. If lots of people are finding it more difficult, a look into a re-balance is in order, imho.

Queen Of Recovery · May 12, 2012, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by roses are blue

Kilroy's has always been easier on a high armor profession like warrior. Try it in HM on a caster profession, it will be harder. While the rewards for doing the dungeon are small, other than exp points for the survivor farmers, realize that if you're going for a complete dungeon book and/or master of the eye of the north, you will have to do this dungeon. It needs to be do-able by most people using all professions. If lots of people are finding it more difficult, a look into a re-balance is in order, imho.

i did it as a monk.
and whats wrong with making a dungeon more difficult.
they are making the entire game so easy
i find it sad that they immediately start complaining when something is to "difficult"

Aris the Accurate · May 12, 2012, 06:19 PM // 18:19

While it's great that YOU can clear it as a caster profession, with no consumables, with little to no difficulty, the complaint about this missions difficulty increase is being echoed by a lot of people. I'm all for making people work for things, but we need to remember that this is first a foremost a game, and that difficulty must remain in line with both reward and fun.

Relyk · May 13, 2012, 07:28 AM // 07:28

I find it a challenge now. Gives the same tense hit-and-run tactics in high end areas where you can die in a couple seconds. the dungeon is still tremendously shorter than others, so there's nothing wrong with it being tedious or difficult.

MithranArkanere · May 13, 2012, 03:25 PM // 15:25

The HM difficulty has undeniably increased since release.

The first time I did it in HM with an elementalists, I could reach the end with 10..25 energy.
The brawling effect does not override armor, attributes and equipment as it should, so it was unfair, but there was no other problems.

Then, changes to warrior skills gave them more damage, anti-block skills, more knockdowns and skills that previously stopped working when skills where used (enemies deal no damage with normal attacks, and the monsters stopped attacking while they were active so they dealt no damage) now work when skills are being used.
That rendered the skill in the first slot useless since they'll just ignore it altogether, made the first boss attack with skills when he'll be just wasting time, and increased the overall difficulty for both HM and NM, but not too much. It was still easily doable.
With an elementalist, I reached now the end in HM with 15...60 energy on average.

The trick was to make enemies focus on you so Kilroy won't die, and you'll keep his shout on, and heal way more than Kilroy.

But now, the HM HP increase has messed that up.

The initial balance was already gone with changes to skills, but now the 'pace' is also gone.
- If you try to make them attack you, you won't kill enemies fast enough to heal yourself most of the time.
- If the enemies go for Kilroy, he'll die in about 3..4 hits, so you'll lose his extra damage, and eventually his effect.
- Spamming the block skill won't do anything, they'll just remove it with their unblockable stance removals.
- Timing the block skill it's impossible when surrounded, since you can't see the skills the other enemies use when attacked by more than one, so you can use it after they have used up their stance removals.
- Enemies that would have 'downtimes' while they have certain skills active now keep using attacking constantly, meaning that instead hitting you for 0 damage for that time, letting you get rid of other enemies, they keep dealing damage for that time.
- Since attributes and equipment are still not ignored, certain professions have it easier.

And so, for most people it's not longer about skill or fun, it's about mashing 8 to stand up and try to pull enemies one by one as much as they can.

These problems come because it's a solo area in which you are forced to use a fixed build, so you can't make changes to your build to adapt to any changes done to it.

The area must be fixed so these problems no longer arise, with the following changes:
- Enemies must have fixed skills that are 'copycat' skills, that won't be affected by skills changes.
- Anti-blocks and stance removal effects must be removed so the first skill does something again.
- Enemy stats such as HP and armor must be fixed too.
- The brawling effect mus be fixed to set all attributes to 0, ignore equipment and set armor to a fixed amount, preferably 80.

Mintha Syl · May 14, 2012, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I may be a freak but I always found this dungeon too hard and so always had to use the trick to complete it. After all, solo stuff with premade and unchangable bars are either too easy or too hard depending on the player. I can't immagine it now that it's harder.
So i'm with the OP and Mithran.

Lordkrall · May 14, 2012, 08:45 AM // 08:45

It is called HM for a reason.

Most of HM is still way too easy. And here we finally have one that is "hard" and people complain? Seriously?

drkn · May 14, 2012, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Tom Swift nailed all the things that can help you.

Quote:

The trick was to make enemies focus on you so Kilroy won't die, and you'll keep his shout on, and heal way more than Kilroy.

The 'trick' i went with when farming my survivor about a year ago was completely the opposite - i let Kilroy rush in first, get the aggro, and then i chose the target Kilroy was bashing, so that we were able to quickly dispose of enemies. This let me keep my health and adrenaline high at all times, and i was fully prepared to kill off the remaining baddies after Kilroy went down. It was useful especially on the semi-circle part near the end (as was drawing the bad dudes a bit further into the corridor, so that Kilroy can res up easier).

I've tried doing it HM yesterday, with my mesmer, keeping all hints pointed by Tom Swift in mind, and it wasn't particularly difficult - i haven't done it for that year up until now, so i didn't remember its relative pre-update difficulty, but it was manageable with going down only once - at the archers.
Just don't spam all the skills mindlessly, but actually make decent use of them, keep the same target as Kilroy and don't just stand there spamming 1-2-3 if your ass is being served to you.
Once your 'skill level' with this particular dungeon - especially the skillbar you have to use there - is high enough, it's neither painful nor hard - just tricky at times.

MithranArkanere · May 14, 2012, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I don't know how can that work for you.

As soon as more than one enemy targets Killroy, he's dead. There's simply no way around that. It doesn't matter if you target the same enemies as Kilroy, because even if you take out that one, the rest have been using Power Attack after Power Attack on him, and stance removals as soon has he uses his stance to block.
He doesn't get HP on kills like you do, and his regeneration can't cope with the damage enemies do to him HM.
By the time you are halfway the second enemy, he's dead. And that's really fast. Less than 3 or 4 seconds.

Of course, I'm talking about consecutive fights near the end.
The first ones are never a problem.

Just to be sure, I tried again. Just as I said, Kilroy dies in less than 3 seconds if attacked by more than 2 enemies in HM. It takes a more bit less for me, since I manage to kill something before they gang up on me. It doesn't matter much, because it takes about 8 attacks to kill an enemy in HM, and during that time 3 enemies can do well over the 300 damage I'll heal.
I'm interrupting and blocking the attacks of the enemy I have selected (blocking the others happens by sheer luck, since they may have their stance removals ready to use, and they'll use them), and Knocking down other enemies and going back to the current target to keep the damage down.
HM enemies have increased attack speed, and that affect attack skills, which means they can spam away their Power Attacks, doing well over 70..90 damage per hit regardless of your armor.
And after I stand up, if there's 3 enemies around, they'll kill me before the 8-adrenaline skill is charged.

I can only conclude that anyone claiming this to be easy in HM right now is lying, or unaffected by something that affects me.
I would ask for a video of someone doing this as 'easily' as they claim this to be right now. But I suppose if they can lie about it, they'll just upload an old video and say it's recent.

Premium Unleaded · May 14, 2012, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Regardless of whether it is the same or much harder than before, the changes have increased the time it takes to complete it properly by a lot in my experience.

Before, I could consistently manage sub-10 mins on a warrior (knight's) and 10-11 mins runs on a 60ar character (no armour insignia either), sometimes without even getting knocked out once. Now, the same 60ar characters can take upwards of 15-16 mins.

The Only Warrior · May 14, 2012, 11:00 PM // 23:00

/unsigned This dungeon is waaay too easy as it is, even with increased HP on HM enemys this quest is still being abused by survivors, and with the "Stand Up!" skill this is basically a free hunters ale. If you're having that much trouble try binding 8 9 and 0 to "Use skill 8", this allows you to not only click+button mash, but gain 3 where you would gain 1, as the skill has no recharge or cast time.

MithranArkanere · May 16, 2012, 10:15 PM // 22:15

The fact that the original design of the area has been completely destroyed remains.

And not everyone has the fast connection required to make some of the things you have to do in it as it is now. I've seen some people complaining about losing even though they had maxed the bar.
That's because the client got the 'downed' bar too late, and so they could not start spamming the key fast enough the server killed them before they could see it.
Same when they use a skill, but instead hitting, they appear downed, because the enemies killind the guy in server time, and while the client was still sending attacks.
It was easy because of the 'solo leeway'. If didn't have those problems, you didn't need the leeway.

Over it being a 'challenge', it's more important it being possible for as much people as possible, even if they happen to have ping way over 500 because they live in the End of the World.

Mintha Syl · May 17, 2012, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

And not everyone has the fast connection required to make some of the things you have to do in it as it is now. I've seen some people complaining about losing even though they had maxed the bar.
That's because the client got the 'downed' bar too late, and so they could not start spamming the key fast enough the server killed them before they could see it.
Same when they use a skill, but instead hitting, they appear downed, because the enemies killind the guy in server time, and while the client was still sending attacks.
It was easy because of the 'solo leeway'. If didn't have those problems, you didn't need the leeway.

Oooh yes, lag. With lag you can't really do it, as 1 second of it and you're dead meat, it's frustrating.

Eon Lilu · May 25, 2012, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Great just learned about this update...just made survivor title way harder to get now...

Please change back arena net...

yitjuan · May 25, 2012, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eon Lilu

Great just learned about this update...just made survivor title way harder to get now...

Please change back arena net...

What are you talking about - Survivor can be AFK'ed or farmed via killing shiny things. There are valid arguments to change the difficulty of Kilroy's but nothing to do with Survivor.